Talk:The Long Night (episode)
Title This episode is titled "The Long Night". --Potsk (talk) 04:22, April 29, 2019 (UTC) Synopsis: "Winterfell fights the Army of the Dead." — Darth Dracarys (talk) 05:53, April 29, 2019 (UTC) Deaths Two more deaths to add: Melisandre and Jorah Mormont. DXAshram (talk) 06:07, April 29, 2019 (UTC) One more death: Qhono, Chrras (talk) 12:06, April 29, 2019 (UTC) The article has her listed as dead, but is Alys Karstark not present in the episode 4 trailer? The scene where Daenerys is being cheered at by the northmen? She's stood next to Yohn Royce GoTseany (talk) 20:43, April 29, 2019 (UTC) : Missing from the "obviously survived", thus may be dead? Podrick Payne, Thormund Giantsbane? (Gendry seems to be in the trailer for Ep4) --IrasCignavojo (talk) 21:40, April 29, 2019 (UTC) : : Alys Karstark can be spotted next to Yohn royce at the Winterfell celebration table in the ep 4 preview, so she lived. Kitfistofan93 (talk) 00:34, April 30, 2019 (UTC) Tormund is in the Episode 4 trailer. He can be seen toasting Dany. TheUnknown285 (talk) 05:26, April 30, 2019 (UTC) If "White Walkers" are listed among the deaths, then "Wights" should be as well. TheUnknown285 (talk) 14:50, April 30, 2019 (UTC) I'd like to suggest taking a cue from the walking dead wiki and putting "(wight)" and (living and wight) next to characters who died this episode as a wight. This should be done for at least Viserion if no others, as he first died several episodes prior (Beyond the Wall) GentleIce (talk) 21:55, May 2, 2019 (UTC) Writing I was so upset at the awful writing in this episode that I decided to see what reviewers were saying first, then sleep on it (as it was 2 am by then). Updating from handwritten notes now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:38, April 29, 2019 (UTC) :: I literally said words to the effect of "The Dragon Demands is going to go on a long, frustrated rant about THIS!" --Mad Latinist (talk) 14:19, April 29, 2019 (UTC) : On the one hand, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. On the other, I'm disappointed not a single main character died (only secondary and tertiary), there were way too many close-call fakeouts on the main characers. Plot armor at absurd levels. ::pretty sure Theon was a major character...--Cometstyles 16:41, April 29, 2019 (UTC) : Also, I guess the Prince that Was Promised prophecy was just forgotten by the writters, because Arya sure doesn't fit any of the requirements. DRAEVAN13 13:44, April 29, 2019 (UTC) ::Yeah, and as other people have observed, it seems pretty ridiculous Dany could not kill the Night King with her dragon, but Arya could with her dagger. Shaneymike (talk) 13:48, April 29, 2019 (UTC) ::: That part's not so surprising, it was hinted at several times in past seasons the White Walkers were highly resistant or even immune to fire, this just confirmed it. Plus I found that little smirk the Night King gave was great. DRAEVAN13 13:52, April 29, 2019 (UTC) Oh I'm not upset at character deaths, or Arya killing the Night King herself....but the very idea of a Night King. Throwing out the Prince That Was Promised prophecy was...weird. Oh I'm not enraged at all....the whole thing...er, "bemused" me. The whole thing is like a ripoff of Battle of the Bastards mixed with the Wight Hunt. What we've come to expect. They're just pandering the actors for Emmy awards. So just...1 - As a "battle"....it wasn't really all that impressive compared to prior ones, 2 - they gutted the whole White Walker storyline, in ways we do not yet fully understand. But I'm not the only one saying that. (shrug) It was pretty weird. I don't know. At this point I hope for a fresh start with whatever prequels we get...this is our "X-Men 3".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:55, April 30, 2019 (UTC) : Honestly, I'd have rather they just leave out the Prince That was promised storyline entirely from the show. As it is, the writers appear to have just forgotten about it after bringing it up last season. Arya doesn't fit any of the requirements for the PTwP. DRAEVAN13 10:02, April 30, 2019 (UTC) ::The thing is... both obsidian and Valyrian steel derive their magical properties FROM dragon fire, which is key to the forging of both materials. Hell, Weiss even said in the commentary that “It didn’t work because we didn’t want it to”. It makes no sense from a lore standpoint however... - 15:02, April 30, 2019 (UTC) Notes I'd add it myself if this page wasn't locked, but it should be noted that this is the third episode centering entirely on a battle, first two being Blackwater and The Battle of the Bastards. KillRoy231 (talk) 15:26, April 29, 2019 (UTC) I'm pretty sure that sansa is referring to her marriages when she tells Tyrion that he "was the best of them"... GeeTee87 (talk) 05:25, May 4, 2019 (UTC) Absences Did anyone see Yohn Royce this episode? His absence is is interesting given he's evidently the de facto leader of the Vale forces (who definitely were present) and he was in the previous two episodes. Also, it's worth noting for the article (and for the article on the battle) that despite Sansa calling the banners, only Houses Karstark, Mormont, and Umber (and Hornwood according to this article) are shown to have come to Wintefell (or attempted to do so). They say Glover flat out said no. Bolton is likely extinct. Who knows what happened to the Tallharts after the Ironborn sacked Torrhen's Square. I don't think the show ever bothered to show houses like Wull and Ryswell, etc. But Houses Reed, Manderly, and Cerwyn have all featured prominately post-Battle of the Bastards only to not be mentioned again. Where are they? TheUnknown285 (talk) 20:07, April 29, 2019 (UTC) Trivia Casual reminder that the Trivia section is NOT the complaints section. Don't fill it with your gripes with the episode. No. It's a book adaptation. There will be comparisons. Otherwise we're just a mouthpiece.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:40, April 29, 2019 (UTC) Agree completely with Yuunoho. As per usual, you have turned this into your personal rant and rave page. It has absolutely nothing to do anymore with objectively looking at or pointing out differences. Kitfistofan93 (talk) 00:32, April 30, 2019 (UTC) We're not gutting it. Did you have a specific complaint of something that should be refined?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:33, April 30, 2019 (UTC) :Looks like it should be gutted. The whole section on Arya reads like childish whining. Very unprofessional. Save the rants for YouTube videos. GokūBlack10 (Talk) 01:42, April 30, 2019 (UTC) If you were going to stop us from critiquing the show in the notes sections...it would have been stopped already in the past 8 years. Do you have a specific point you feel is misquoting something? What specifically about the Arya section did you take issue with?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:50, April 30, 2019 (UTC) Meaning no disrespect, but a wiki's purpose is not for critique. It is for information and information only. Much of the back-and-forth in the Trivia section reads almost as a conversation, and doesn't serve as an encyclopedia by any stretch of the imagination. I hope you won't strike me down with a ban for daring to say it, but judging by your personal page it's clear you harbor some kind of major resentment for the differences between the book and show. There's absolutely nothing wrong with disliking the adaptation, but is seems accurate to say that bias is sneaking its way into the way people are writing these pages, and your unwillingness to confront that seems symptomatic of the same issue. I know this is my first edit on this wiki and you've got literal thousands under your belt, but maybe you should rethink the attitude you bring to your role here? You say in your bio you are unconcerned with the opinions of critics, but maybe listening to the voice of the smallfolk is what makes a ruler just. Uh... I mean administrator. Think about it. Yuunohu 3:05, April 30, 2019 (EST) :To me, a casual reader of this wiki and an invested consumer of both ASoIaF and GoT, the Trivia section really come off as written by a pissed of GRRM fan complaining about the show not following the books (which, since the book doesnt exist yet, shouldn't be a surprise) and not taking the turns certain viewers would like (which I fail to see why it is of general interest). I don't really care that much, and if that's what this wiki is going for that's fine, but I just felt like mentioning it. Peace! --Kefas80 (talk) 07:44, April 30, 2019 (UTC) :: The whole thing is what I have a problem with. There is an objective and unbias way to present that information in a Trivia section: "The stunt work behind Arya's leap, which resulted in the death of the Night King, involved..." which allows you to present the information and let your reader(s) come to their own conclusions without you coming off sounding like a roiding, angsty teenager that's pissed they didn't get the flavor popsicle they wanted. The whole section reads like a rant from a YouTube hate video. Not a documentation of what happened or the work that went into it—you know, the purpose of a Trivia section. Why are you even bothering to compare this episodes with the books? The books are leagues behind the show. We don't even know if there will be a comparable scene in the books, yet there is a whole section dedicated to the books in there. :: Secondly, I also looked at your user page. Look, I get it. You don't like how the television show has adapted a series you like. I get that. I even agree with some of your criticism. But to use your position as staff on this wiki to shove your rants into articles on the episode is unprofessional, for one, and looks childish on you personally. ::As a casual reader of your wiki, I will say that this severely turned me off to this wiki. If this is what your fellow staff accept as behavior from you, regardless of how many years you've been doing it (that makes it worse), and from the quality of the articles the site puts out there, then maybe I'm better off just not using a wiki for Game of Thrones at all. GokūBlack10 (Talk) 09:10, April 30, 2019 (UTC) :: ::While it's an interesting read, I have to agree with the others, Dragon Demands. That stuff belongs on the talk page or a blog post. The articles on a Wiki should be encyclopedic and neutral in tone, and those paragraphs you wrote are neither. DRAEVAN13 10:05, April 30, 2019 (UTC) I apologize. I was writing up a lot of content from my handwritten notes yesterday, but now seeing them all on screen, with time to think it over, and in light of all your comments....yeah, this sounds a lot more caustic than I meant it. Particularly the Arya parts, which ironically, I'm not even that upset about now. I will rewrite and refine them and check back here.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:42, April 30, 2019 (UTC) (still revising)....guys...whoa...what if Arya is the third head of the Dragon in the books...and this was just a condensation of that?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:09, April 30, 2019 (UTC) Okay, I've finished my revisions, toning it down. Are there still major issues? I was pretty upset about the Arya thing when it happened but...it just hit me, "what if she actually is the third head of the dragon in the books?"--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:19, April 30, 2019 (UTC) ::Thanks for backing down. This is much better (and what an amazing theory!) I do honestly enjoy your rants, particularly because of how knowledgeable they are, but I'd rather avoid that level of causticity in the wiki entries. --Mad Latinist (talk) 22:59, May 1, 2019 (UTC) : Your comment about Arya being the third head of the dragon, and this week's episode, made me realize something. We were told GRRM told the producers how the books will end so they have a framework to work off of... but how much did he tell them? I'd always assumed GRRM told them something along the lines of "This happens to character X in Winds of Winter, then this happens to them in Dream of Spring." An outline for each main character, essentially. But the more I think about it, I wonder if all he told them was "The White Walkers lose and character X sits the Iron Throne at the end of the series." So the producers knew they had to kill the Night King and keep the character who sits the Iron Throne in the end alive, but beyond that, they're on their own. If so, that'd explain why the writing has gone downhill since season 5 when the show passed the books. DRAEVAN13 11:27, May 1, 2019 (UTC) Melisandre's Chant Did anyone catch what Melisandre was chanting? I wanted to try and translate it. SonOfZeus1200 20:36, April 29, 2019 (UTC) Here's her lighting the trenches and here's her lighting the arakhs. TheUnknown285 (talk) 21:12, April 29, 2019 (UTC) Apparently it means "Lord's Light" but I need to hunt down an accurate transliteration.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:40, April 29, 2019 (UTC) I found a post by the linguist.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:33, April 30, 2019 (UTC) Wun Wun? Is the Giant that mutally killed Lyanna Mormont Wun Wun? Wun Wun died from an arrow to the right eye, the same eye the Giant wight is missing. They're played by the same guy. And both destroy the Winterfell gates in their only scene before being stabbed in the eye. At the very least, it seems like a bit of a callback. TheUnknown285 (talk) 04:25, April 30, 2019 (UTC) :No. --Potsk (talk) 04:29, April 30, 2019 (UTC) : Likely not. There's a good chance Jon and Tormund would have made sure to burn Wun Wun's body after they'd defeated Ramsay. The eye thing is a good observation tho! Quiscustodiet (talk) 18:40, May 6, 2019 (UTC) Arya's Hands Arya had the knife in her left hand then dropped it into her right hand to then kill the Night King. it's reversed in the notes. --SonOfZeus1200 15:59, May 2, 2019 (UTC) Winterfell's defenses I don't think the dragonglass spiked logs were meant to be dropped on the wights. More likely the were there to deter wights from climbing up that section of wall and upon closer inspection it looks like the logs can spin so wights couldn't hoist themselves up. Might also want to point out that the trebuchets and catapults should have been left inside the castle. --SonOfZeus1200 19:01, May 2, 2019 (UTC) Skeleton wights Notes ay it's unknown whether WW could raise skeletons without muscles. But didn't we see similar thing in 4,10 wnear 3-eyed cave? Gevorg89 (talk) 14:10, May 4, 2019 (UTC) Melisadre Notes say Carice suffered withdrawal issues. Could the wordning be changed? For Google only found info on her thinking about quitting the show to be with her son, when "withdrawal" is generally understood as referring to drugs unless specified otherise. Gevorg89 (talk) 14:10, May 4, 2019 (UTC) Dragonfire and NK Notes on Tactics say that due to Hardhome and Wight Hunt experience "What was the point of uselessly unleashing dragonfire at the Night King?". I don't remember dragons in Hardhome and fire unleashed on NK in wight hunt. Gevorg89 (talk) 14:50, May 4, 2019 (UTC) :Well, the Walkers demonstrated the ability to pass through fire unscathed in both those episodes... dragon fire is supposed to be a different kettle of fish though... in the books at least. - 18:54, May 6, 2019 (UTC) Unlock? Is this page eligible for unlocking yet? — Darth Dracarys (talk) 00:16, May 16, 2019 (UTC) Please unlock. TheUnknown285 (talk) 22:46, May 20, 2019 (UTC) Done. Shaneymike (talk) 22:48, May 20, 2019 (UTC)